Freedom of Speech confusion...

[Alex]

Some believe that by never editing anyone's words on the forums that they moderate that they are protecting "freedom of speech".

But a closer look finds severe flaws in this position. Speech is different when "spoken" on a forum. When one speaks in real life, the moment after the words have made a sound, they no longer exist. As the moment ends, so does the speech.

This is entirely different than "speaking", aka, "posting" on a forum. When one posts on a forum, the moment lasts quite a while, perhaps until Hostboard ceases to be.

Unlike the spoken word, which can only be heard by those within proximity at the moment
the words are spoken, a post on Hostboard may
be viewed hours, days, months after it has been posted.

This means that to say "I support freedom of speech for my forum" is an oxymoron. What really is being said by the moderator is that they support the right for virtual signposts to be placed on their forum, irrespective of their truth or validity.

In no way is this a support of freedom of speech since no speech has taken place.

[soulfilms]

taken literally, that may be a grammatical error.

but we all know that the adage 'freedom of speech' is a more involved phrase than just the sum of its three words.

and why don't you just go ahead and say it:

I FIND SOULFILM'S STANCE ON THIS ISSUE DISTASTEFUL AND WRONG.

[Alex]

Actually, I define it as spineless bravado.

The other day, I was on Hostboard.com's main page, and I saw the five most current topics (by the way Tard, the five most current topics was my suggestion) and I clicked on a title.

As I read the replies, the next to last was from somebody who shall remain nameless, so I bypassed making a reply. Because to do otherwise would be to invite more "freedom of speech prose" at my expense. The only way I can protect my name is to avoid those who don't respect it and just slide on by.

Freedom of grease.

[Alex]

So anyway, I just read a doozy. Justice Scalia, of the United States Supreme Court, who apparently was the swing vote in the Florida election stealing (and who's nephew may have interned with George Bush Senior, or some odd connection of that type), is a champion of free speech issues.

Here's the doozy. Scalia REFUSES to be videotaped or recorded when he speaks in public.

Why?

Because Scalia understands that free speech is DIFFERENT than erecting signposts.

Free speech, when spoken, disappears the moment after it leaves the breathe of the person who said it.

But recorded messages, or messages left on forums, can be viewed anytime, anywhere, by anyone. As such, their "freedom" falls under a different set of guidelines than the spoken word. Scalia REFUSES to let his words be recorded, and yet he champions free speech for the masses.

What a hypocrite??? Either Scalia is a hypocrite for not allowing his words to be recorded, or those of you who believe that anyone should be able to signpost anything about another person and be protected at all costs, are imbeciles.

Either or, which is it?

Freedom of Speech is easy to confuse with
signposting when one is in a self-congratulatory mood about how they value the rights of the Sadam Hussein's of the world to do as they see fit.

What you really are standing up for is the right to remain on the sidelines even as your inactions cause new problems you refuse to acknowledge.

[soulfilms]

i believe that once said, someone should stick by their words. be accountable for them. that is why i will not erase them. because to erase them will be as though they never existed and it did.

i believe that very few people come to my part of HB and even fewer who are young impressionable newbies and i seriously don't believe your reputation is damaged in any way.

[Alex]

Well, the only solace I can take from this situation
is for once, you couldn't be dumber or wronger on an issue than you are on this one (I know, wronger isn't a word).

You spoke mountains full with your few words. First, you sound just like George Bush and his "conviction" on matters that he believes in. So when Bush believes in a cause he is arrogant, wrong, stupid, etc, but when you believe just as earnestly in "protcting" slander, you are doing an honorable thing.

Secondly, 1QuickSi has mentioned that many people visit hostboard who never register or even accept cookies. They can view all they want, and the forum view counters will not register. So for you to say you doubt anyone else has seen it is merely opinion, and more likely than not, one that will be wrong over the passage of time.

Thirdly, there are software programs that "detect" words and pharases and make notes and lists. Even if the software is flawed, the bottom line is accusations can be outlined with no regard to their truth.

Fourthly, a friend would not tolerate the type of character assassination that I am being told to tolerate. It's sad that unless someone meets someone face to face, internet friendships cannot be taken seriously, ever. You'd think a person's words could stand for something.

Fifthly, a while back I had deleted a statement by you that was a false generalization, I put it back on this forum because a couple of people wanted to see the remark. I should have had conviction and not listened to what others opinions were.

Sixtly, you and another poster thought I should do away with the forum censor, even though my forum isn't even on the hardcore main page. Talk about trying to get others to do what you want, I would never demand/request such a thing of another moderator.

This is all about being lazy. It's so much easier to just say "I believe in Free Speech" and not make a tough decision while patting oneself on the back for standing up for "Feedom of Speech".

Now we live in an age where considering other peoples feelings and the possiblity that slander could harm them in such a way that we cannot fore tell to be a sign of weakness.

bullocks.

[SmokinLizzies]

i love you alex

[soulfilms]

******** alex!

i NEVER demanded you to repost what you deleted and i NEVER demanded you to take away that censor.

Gary told you to take it off and i agreed that i didn't like the censor (because by censoring, people automatically assume you've used the worst word when it could have been something quite innocent). i will give you a wide berth on the 'false generalisation' count. because that is in the past.

and are you SERIOUSLY concerned that you MIGHT tarnish your reputation to people that never register or accept cookies form Hostboard? and if such people do come around and see it, do you think that they can't read the whole thread and see that it is not true? people don't take posts on a stand alone basis. they read it in accordance with what's been written before and after.

george bush is is. my opinions of him may be that he's stupid or whatnot. just like your opinion of me is 'dumber and wronger'. i'm sure there's no need to tell you that all such are subjective.

and don't you find it humiliatingly petty squabbling on the internet over such a relatively trite concern?

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by soulfilms:
******** alex!

i NEVER demanded you to repost what you deleted and i NEVER demanded you to take away that censor.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean you just asked and I complied? Imagine that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by soulfilms:


Gary told you to take it off and i agreed that i didn't like the censor (because by censoring, people automatically assume you've used the worst word when it could have been something quite innocent).

</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

But agreeing with someone who demands something is a form of co-demanding it.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by soulfilms:


i will give you a wide berth on the 'false generalisation' count. because that is in the past.

and are you SERIOUSLY concerned that you MIGHT tarnish your reputation to people that never register or accept cookies form Hostboard? and if such people do come around and see it, do you think that they can't read the whole thread and see that it is not true? people don't take posts on a stand alone basis. they read it in accordance with what's been written before and after.

</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I have a "kick-me" sign on my back, and I find out about it, and it remains, then I deserve to be kicked.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by soulfilms:


george bush is is. my opinions of him may be that he's stupid or whatnot. just like your opinion of me is 'dumber and wronger'. i'm sure there's no need to tell you that all such are subjective. </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this instance only. I hope you weren't implying that my belief in this instance carrys over into other posts of yours in the past, for they do not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by soulfilms:

and don't you find it humiliatingly petty squabbling on the internet over such a relatively trite concern?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, to the point where I have removed all of my Hostboard favorites, cuz if I don't visit a forum that tolerates slandering my name, the odds reduce that I will be slandered.

Freedom of speech wins! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Katt721]

**wishes she knew what this thread was REALLY about :S